After being intentionally and repeatedly misgendered by TalkTV host Julia Hartley-Brewer, guest and journalist Shivani Dave epically schooled her on the importance of using correct pronouns.
Dave, who uses they/them pronouns, appeared on the show to speak about the Cass report, the recently released review of an investigation into England's healthcare for trans youth.
Upon introducing her guest, Hartley-Brewer announced:
“My next guest is Shivani Dave."
"She’s a journalist and presenter at Virgin Radio.”
Dave greeted and corrected the host:
“Good afternoon, Julia."
"You know my pronouns are they/them.”
But the host did not apologize.
Instead, she went on a rant about "grammar."
“Thank you for telling me your pronouns."
"I use correct grammar.”
She continued:
“You can choose your pronouns, choose what you want to call yourself, but you don’t get to require me to use incorrect grammar."
"You’re not a plural, you’re one person, and you’re a female person. "
"So, I will use ‘she’ and ‘her,’ thank you very much.”
Remaining calm, Dave said the host can “do what you like," and added that it is not grammatically incorrect to use singular they/them pronouns for an individual.
They added:
"Maybe I'm just making sure people know, in case they're watching, and they may want to refer to me respectfully."
When Hartley-Brew argued she was using the correct pronouns for "a single woman appearing on my show," Dave threw Hartley-Brewer's pre-interview comment about "special labels" in her face, quipping:
"I'm not a single woman, though."
"I'm a 'very special' nonbinary trans person, as you just pointed out."
Before finally moving on to talk about the Cass report, Hartley-Brewer rolled her eyes and said:
“Okay. I’m not special. I’m just a boring, old, heterosexual, married woman."
"But you know, sorry about that. We’re not allowed to do that anymore."
You can watch below.
Viewers of the segment expressed their disgust over the behavior exhibited by the host.
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And others applauded Dave for expertly ripping Hartley-Brewer.
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Speaking with PinkNews, Dave explained the importance of setting the host straight.
“It’s important to use someone’s correct pronouns because it is such a small and simple way to show basic respect for one another."
“All major professional American psychological and psychiatric associations recognize that inclusive language usage for LGBTQ+ people drastically decreases experiences of depression, social anxiety, suicidal ideation and other negative mental-health factors.”
And as for Hartley-Brewer, she is no stranger to finding herself in the middle of a controversy.
In 2023, the host made a comment on X, formerly Twitter, praising the Taliban for "know[ing] what a woman is," after an LGBTQ+ journalist claimed he was compared to the “group that beheads and murders women and gay people.”
Yeah, that tracks.
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